Last Friday evening, three leading presidential candidates, Muhammadu Buhari (CPC), Ibrahim Shekarau (ANPP) and Nuhu Ribadu (ACN) took part in a presidential debate organised by the cable television NN24 and beamed live to Nigerians. Here are excerpts from the debate anchored by Kadaria Ahmed of Next Newspaper.
Buhari: The important issue to be discussed as I have always mentioned is firstly the security of the nation state itself. There is no point of going out only to be kidnapped and this is more significant, perhaps, more than even the issue of power. There is no way you can get serious investors anywhere in the world if their security cannot be guaranteed.
Ribadu: I am 50 years. A child of Independence. I hold a Master’s degree in Law and I was called to the Nigerian Bar in 1984. I joined the Nigerian Police Force in 1985 and since then I have been in the service of my country. I worked for 25 years and rose to the rank of AIG. I was the former chairman of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission which I laid the foundation a few years ago. I am here contesting for the office of the President Federal Republic of Nigeria. I have come to bring change because time for change has come. And this event is proof that time for change is here. I am not here because of luck. I have worked all my life. I deliberately and consciously came out to contest for the office of the president of Nigeria. I am young. I belong to the age bracket of vibrant young leaders in the world today.
Shekarau: My party, the All Nigeria Peoples Party has identified five major focal areas which are summarized as FENDS. The F stands for freedom, E stands for equity, N stands for nationalism, D for development and S for security. All of these items are about human development and for us to achieve and realize this kind of objective we broke them down into two components: that is human development and social justice. These are the two major platforms by which we shall achieve these five major objectives.
Kadaria: During your presentation before the senate you indicted Mr. Bola Tinubu of corruption. Now given what you said about Ahmed Bola Tinubu can I ask you why Nigerians should believe you? Doesn’t this raise serious morality and ethical issues about you because you are now working with the man and trying to become the president?
Ribadu: With respect Kadiria. I never said he is a looter of international standard or a thief. I was making reference to all the persons that we were investigating then. I said the case of Bola Tinubu was a case involving international dimension. It was not a case that was being handled by the EFCC therefore I would not have much to say about it. In any case I have never come out to judge and sentence an individual before.
Kadaria: Now to General Muhammadu Buhari. Sir you were a Head of State during the military regime and you were quoted in an interview with the Daily Times I think that was in 1984 when you were asked about transition to civilian rule as saying that “we have not discussed the question of return to democracy in the military council. The problem we have now is how to revive the economy, ensure discipline and respect abroad. In addition to all that your regime was known to be a little bit autocratic. Now given your antecedents, when you were a military leader why should Nigerians vote for you under a democratic dispensation?
Buhari: Firstly you said when the question was put to me about democracy then I said we have not decided about it. It means within the military government I to lead I was democratic. I was the president of the Supreme Military Council, the chairman of the national council of states and the chairman of council of ministers: We, when I say we, these three governmental structures at the federal level in deciding on each issue, whether it is budgeting, security, whether it is in any aspect of government before the other parts of government is given the opportunity to execute such a decision of government, there are ministries, there are parastatals, there are security institutions. So part of the constitution the military administration under me suspended were of course the election and the partisan politics…
Basically, the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria 1999 stipulates that every person from the age of 18 and above can aspire to any office from councilor of a local government to the president. I am using that facility to ask Nigerians to vote for me.
Kadaria: Will you be able to operate in a democratic setting given your history? Will you be able to work with democratic institutions?
Buhari: Yes. My antecedents in party Politics since 2003, I believe Nigerians knows about it. We lost an election. I did not go on the streets. I went to court to prove my case. In 2007 again I contested, again the Supreme Court which was the last court gave a split decision. Three justices of the Supreme Court said the election was flawed, three said it can be managed. Nigeria couldn’t run another election. The Chief Justice then cast his support for the government then. Which means undemocratic. I spent 50 months in court asking for my rights that the elections were rigged and the international community observer team reports and our internal observer team report confirmed that the elections were rigged. I didn’t go to the streets, I went to the court and I spent 50 months in court.
Kadaria: Now Mallam Shekarau, Nigeria is a plural society. I learnt in the state you govern, Kano State the Hisbah which is a morality police is known to brutally enforce Sharia and in the process sometimes trampling on peoples rights as enshrined in the Nigerian constitution.
How do you reconcile this intolerance with your desire to be a leader of the country as diverse as Nigeria?
Shekarau: In the first place I do not agree that the Hisbah was brutalizing and violating the constitutional rights of our citizens. We did not just wake up to establish Hisbah without the legislation. We used the same constitutional provisions that allow any state to create any form or any law that would maintain law and order within the state. The Hisbah is not more than what today we refer to as community policing. We have Hisbah in every community; their duty is to ensure that the citizens are law-abiding. This is exactly what they do. It is those who violate the rules of the land, and we challenge any one who ever says that the Hisbah has done any thing to him contrary to the rules and regulation governing the land should take his case to the law court and challenge the creation of Hisbah. In fact the fist item on the law of the Hisbah is that the Hisbah is to assist the Nigeria police in maintenance of law and order.
Kadaria: In practical terms, the impact of the Hisbah in Kano has included killing the film industry that was providing employment for what is known in Nigeria as Nollywood. So there has been an exodus of film makers out of Kano who get harassed, who have been asked to submit their scripts for inspection in total disregard of the peoples rights to express themselves in that particular way.
Shekarau: I think there is something wrong. Hisbah has nothing to do with film censorship. We have a film censorship board created by law through a legislation. We have a right to decide what is right for the community. A government has the moral responsibility to protect the rights and interests for the peaceful coexistence of the society. What we have done is to say any body who wants to establish a film industry should comply with certain basic laws. I challenge anybody who says any of these rules and regulations contradicts the provisions of the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria to challenge us in court.
Kadaria: You seems to be very strong in terms of protecting the rights of the majority, what about the rights of the minority in the society that you govern?
Shekarau: In fact it may interest you to know that Kano State today is the most peaceful state in Nigeria. If you ask any of the so called minority they are quite happy, they are quite peaceful. In fact, today you will be surprised to find out that those you call non indigenes prefer to go for settlement of disagreements within the community either to the Hisbah or to the censorship board. We don’t have any quarrel at all. The laws are working, the society has accepted them and the film industry is thriving very well. All we say is abide by the rules and regulations and there is no community that you live in without guiding principles, without rules and regulations and think there would be discipline and order in that community.
Kadaria: Now since Nigeria started exploring oil, the benefits have included poverty, environmental degradation and in recent times, criminality. How would you address this problem if you are voted to become the president of Nigeria?
Ribadu: The problem of the Niger Delta is also the problem of Nigeria. It is a region that has produced so much but unfortunately it has not been able to translate into development and growth of the area. We have neglected that part. We have to change it. We have to as a matter of urgency go back; we have seen what this government is doing, creating agencies, making just patronage outfits and taking care of very few people. Action Congress of Nigeria during my own administration, with my team, will come up with a marshal plan; a plan that is going to address the totality of the problems confronting this region. We are going to ensure the resources that are coming out of that area constitutionally go to that region, channeled and put into addressing those issues. The violence there has to be addressed. Two, youth employment, young men and young women who are today almost frustrated will have to go back and see that they are given a chance to contribute.
General Muhammadu Buhari, how will you deal with the issue of militancy in the Niger Delta?
Buhari: The issue of militancy in the Niger Delta is that young people were armed, given ammunition and sent against political opponents and after winning the elections the youths were asked to hand over the weapons but they said no. if we examine the reason it is very clear. If a young man, a teenager is earning $50,000 a week why should he go to school and spend 20 years and earn N100,000 a month? In the CPC we have decided that the traditional leadership, the operating company leadership and all the three tiers of government will have to come together and critically examine the issue of militancy in the Niger Delta and deal with it using the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.
Kadaria: As a matter of fact what you are saying is that you still don’t have a solution. You still going to sit down and come up with a solution?
Buhari: No, we have a solution. The solution is we have to sit down with the Niger Delta militant’s leadership, their traditional leadership and the operating companies before we know the problems.
Kadaria: How is your programme for the Niger Delta different from that of the two other candidates?
Shekarau: The issue of the Niger Delta is not necessarily about the militants. Coming from my back ground as a trained guidance counselor, you need to go back to the roots, get back to the community. There is something that tells me that there is a total loss of confidence in government. Before these young men start carrying weapons and start harassing everybody that must have had some inclines or feeling that their leader and elders down there in their community have a grudge that those government at the local, state and federal levels have not been fair to them. The sum total of the problem of the Niger Delta is a problem of total loss of confidence and the only solution is to go back and address the issue of loss of confidence. It is not about telling these youths to hand in their weapons, we have an amnesty, it is not working. The issue is go back to the roots sit down with them, discuss with them and allocate appropriate funds to make sure that the problems are addressed.
Kadaria: I think we keep hearing sit down with the militants, talk to them but the existing government had sat down with the militants. We have an ongoing amnesty programme…
Shekarau: It is not about the militants. The government is sitting with the militants. It is not about just the militants. What are we doing about the whole idea and the people back home in the communities. The militants are somehow speaking loud the minds of the teeming population back home. If you go to the leaders of the militants, this is just one of the byproducts of the grudge back home. What you need to do is to go back and sit with the communities, identify what the root causes are. What are the problems? What measures are you going to take at all levels to solve them?
Kadaria: Now Nuhu Ribadu you know that there is a PIB bill that is making its way through the legislative arm of government are you satisfied with the provisions of the bill as it is?
Ribadu: No. there are so many areas that would require improvement and changes. It is a good thing because it is progress in what we are doing. The fundamental thing that is lacking in this industry is openness, transparency, accountability in the way we manage these resources. Today, NNPC is a closed place. No one knows what is going on there. It is a small clique of people that is in control. They are in conspiracy with the oil companies. The oil companies do what they like, no questions are asked. They are almost literally above the law. It has to change. They caused the problems that are happening in the Niger Delta and indeed the oil industry. I wanted to say and I will say it again, that the problem, the insecurity, the inability to get the maximum out of that industry and indeed the Niger Delta is simply because of not being able to address those fundamental issues. The issues are economy and justice. Economy: ability to get the maximum out of what we have, use it properly in the way that people would see benefits. Two, if you want peace you must go through the hall of justice and fairness. The oil companies have been in conspiracy so far. They have not been on the side of Nigerians.
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